Out of My Mind: How Did He Do?

He dodges... he weaves... he ducks....

L.A. Times:

It was former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani’s turn in Tim Russert’s hot seat Sunday, but the front-runner (in national polls) for the GOP presidential nomination managed to stay cool.

The host of NBC’s “Meet the Press” is inviting the leading presidential candidates for one-on-one hour-long interviews; Giuliani is the 10th to appear since the “Meet the Candidates” series started in January with former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

Russert does his homework: He asked Huckabee, for instance, about the Arkansas parole board's decision to parole a convicted rapist who went on to commit another rape and murder (the subject of Richard A. Serrano's article in Sunday's Los Angeles Times, which quoted parole board officials as saying that Huckabee was more involved than he initially described). Last month he pressed Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, the current Democratic leader in Iowa, about his relationship with an indicted Chicago developer who had supported his campaigns and from whom he purchased part of a vacant lot adjacent to his Chicago home.

Russert's initial questions to Giuliani were relatively gentle -- current poll numbers and foreign policy. Then he moved to the tougher stuff, ...

including Giuliani’s connections with the consulting firm and the law firm that both bear his name; his recommendation of former New York police commissioner Bernard Kerik – now indicted on corruption charges – as head of the Department of Homeland Security, and his use of New York Police Department officers to provide security -- including dog-walking -- for his then-mistress (and now third wife) Judith Nathan.

Giuliani laughed aloud when asked about his law firm’s representation of Citgo, the Texas-based oil company that is the U.S. subsidiary of Venezuela’s state oil company. The head of Petroleos de Venezuela SA is the country’s president, Hugo Chavez, who has attacked President Bush as “the devil” and “a genocidal murderer.” Bracewell & Giuliani represented Citgo “just in Texas,” Giuliani said. “And then they stopped representing them.”

He appeared somewhat more defensive when discussing his security consulting firm, Giuliani Partners, and its controversial relationship with the government of Qatar. Members of Qatar’s ruling family, Russert said, have been accused of allowing Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who went on to become the chief plotter of the Sept. 11 attacks, to live in the country during the 1990s even though he was known to have terrorist ties -- and in 1996 they even tipped him off that the FBI was after him, allowing him to flee. According to a former CIA terrorism expert, Russert said, “you are taking money from the same accounts that protected Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.”

"That's, that's just totally wrong, and, and it's completely, it's completely distorted,” Giuliani replied.

He was also asked about -- and dismissed as inconsequential -- his firm's reported connections with a Hong Kong businessman with ties to North Korea's "Dear Leader," Kim Jong Il.

Given the questions that have been raised, Russert said, Giuliani's law firm and consulting firm could just release their client lists and end the speculation about what other embarrassments might erupt. No way, Giuliani said, citing confidentiality agreements.

As for Kerik, whom Giuliani plucked from the police ranks to serve as New York City’s correction commissioner and NYPD commissioner before recommending him for the country’s top security post, he said: “The reality is I made a mistake. I made a mistake in not vetting him carefully enough."

And the NYPD dog-walking for Nathan? She had received threats, he said.

“The reality is that it all came about because of my public position,” he said. “And the New York City Police Department has rules; they applied the rules, they applied them in exactly the same way as they always apply them. I did not make the judgment. I didn't ask for it. Judith didn't particularly want it, but it was done because they took the view that it was serious and it had to be done this way.” (It was his pal Kerik, by the way, who approved the security detail.)

Giuliani kept his temper under control -- although it was, perhaps, not the best day for the man who rode his 9/11 reputation to a commanding lead among the GOP candidates, then has seen that lead erode amid reports on the controversies over his personal judgments and business decisions. The Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary are less than a month away, and candidates want voters to focus on their visions for the future, not their past doings.

But he can be comforted by this: Next Sunday it’s former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney’s turn in Russert’s hot seat.

-- Leslie Hoffecker

Steve Benen:

When Rudy Giuliani sat down with Tim Russert yesterday on Meet the Press, there was more interest than usual, in large part because the interview was unexpected. The former mayor rarely sits down for lengthy on-air interviews, and when he does, it’s exclusively for partisan journalists at Fox News. With that in mind, for Giuliani to enter what some call the “Russert Primary” was a little risky (though the risk of being labeled a coward for skipping MTP may have been nearly as great).

Having watched the entire hour-long interview more than once, I can’t say there was much in the way of actual news, and I wouldn’t suggest we actually learned anything, but it was nevertheless a sight to behold. It’s unusual to see a presidential hopeful be so consistently deceptive, non-stop, for a national audience. Watching the show, it was tempting to keep a bottle of Maalox in one hand, and a shovel to trudge through the nonsense in the other.

One could probably write a short book highlighting all of the mendacity, but instead, I thought I’d just summarize the interview for readers, boiling it down to what you need to know.

* Process — Russert started with a series of questions about polls and electoral strategy, which was clearly a waste of valuable time. Giuliani, obviously behind in the early contests, explained, “The idea is you want to win the first one. If you lose the first one, you want to win the second one. If you lose the second one, you want to win the third one.” Brilliant.

* Iran — Russert noted the new NIE on Iran, and highlighted the fact that Tehran acts rationally and responds to international diplomacy. He then asked Giuliani if this shouldn’t remove the option of a pre-emptive military strike against Iran? “No, I don’t think it does,” Giuliani said. “Of course we don’t want to use the military option. It’d be dangerous; it’d be risky; but I think it would be more dangerous and more risky if Iran did become a nuclear power.” In other words, nothing’s changed.

* Iraq — Asked for his “best estimate” as to how long will U.S. troops be in Iraq, Giuliani said, “For as long as necessarily to get the strategic objective achieved.” In other words, if Giuliani’s elected, we’ll stay in Iraq indefinitely, no matter the costs.

* Terrorist expertise — Giuliani has bragged that he’s studied Islamic terrorism for “30 years,” and understood the al Qaeda threat before most U.S. officials. Yesterday, he walked that back a bit, and blamed Bill Clinton for not giving him better briefings on the terrorist threat. (Remember, everything, everywhere, is always Clinton’s fault.)

* Iraq Study Group — Russert asked why Giuliani passed on an opportunity to learn about Iraq and help shape a new foreign policy. The former mayor said he didn’t want to politicize the process. It’s the same excuse he used over the summer — and it was wrong then, too.

* Sheik Abdullah Bin Khalid al-Thani — Giuliani’s secretive consulting firm had a business relationship with a Qataran emir accused of sheltering dangerous terrorists, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Yesterday, Giuliani dissembled on the relationship, and praised Qatar’s government.

* Questionable associations — Russert pointed out that his business contracts extend to Hugo Chavez and associates of Kim Jung Il. Giuliani thought this was absolutely, hysterically funny. He added that he wouldn’t release his confidential client list for public scrutiny.

* Tax returns — Asked if he’d release his tax returns, as he did when he ran for mayor, Giuliani said he’d “consider” it, “at the right time.” How about now? “The right time is not now,” Giuliani said. Asked when the right time might be, he added, “When we get to financial disclosure.” That doesn’t make any sense — to hear Giuliani tell it, there’s such a thing as “Financial Disclosure Time.”

* Bernie Kerik — Giuliani conceded he screwed up in a major way with Kerik, but defended him anyway, saying he did a great job and was a 9/11 “hero.” Praising an obvious felon you recommended to head the Department of Homeland Security is probably not a wise political strategy.

* Shag Fund — Giuliani said he had nothing to do with providing a security detail to his then-mistress (which seems pretty unlikely), and wouldn’t rule out the possibility that presidents might want to extend Secret Service protection to other mistresses in the future. He also couldn’t explain why his mistress received alleged “threats” before becoming a public figure.

* Huckabee’s homophobia — Russert noted Huckabee’s anti-gay comments, which sparked headlines over the weekend, and asked for Giuliani’s response. He said sins come by way of actions, suggesting gays aren’t sinful unless they have sex.

* Balanced budgets — Giuliani vowed to try to balance the federal budget, and pointed to his “record of eight balanced budgets” in New York City. That’s true, just so long as you overlook all the deficits he ran, and the massive deficit he passed on to Bloomberg.

All in all, Russert tried to cover a lot of ground, which left Giuliani to lie with impunity — Russert didn’t press any of the obvious falsehoods, because he wanted to move on to other subjects.

The result was, well, an hour-long lie fest. I’ve seen some comments from conservatives that Giuliani “survived” Russert’s grilling. Of course he did — anyone can “survive” a tough interview if they’re willing to abandon the pretense of honesty.

War Room:

If Rudy Giuliani emerged relatively unscathed from his appearance on "Meet the Press" Sunday, maybe that's because the mayor said so precious little. When he wasn't explaining why he couldn't say more about the question-raising clients who've employed his consulting firm, he was doing his best to avoid direct answers on foreign policy, homeland security and Bernard Kerik.

A few of the highlights:

Giuliani on how long U.S. troops will remain in Iraq: "For as long as necessary to get the strategic objective achieved."

Giuliani on whether the U.S. is succeeding in Iraq: "Everything that I can see, information that I can get, tells me that our military, including Gen. Petraeus, thinks that there's still a chance we can achieve that objective."

Giuliani on whether he appreciated the threat posed by al-Qaida before 9/11: "I ... didn't see the enormity of it. Neither did the administration at the time. My -- I was, I was dependent on the briefings that I was getting from, from, from the administration, and they were not -- I don't think they saw the threat as big as it was, as, as, intense."

Giuliani on why he won't release a list of his consulting firm's clients: "Well, first of all, I, I, I couldn't do that. I mean, I couldn't put out a list of all my clients. There are confidentiality agreements that surround the relationship that businesses have with law firms, in particular, in some cases with security firms. So I can't do that. All, all I can tell you is the following: I can tell you that every client of G.P. [Giuliani Partners] of any significance while I was there, while I was involved in the ... day-to-day operations ... none of them amount to anything other than ethical, lawful, decent work done by both companies, sometimes of the highest standards, always ethical and decent. And none of them involve any kind of conflict of any kind. And as we go along, we'll explore more of it."

Giuliani on financial disclosures he's willing to make: "We do all the financial disclosures. I did a very complete financial disclosure, I think it was in May. I'll do some more complete financial disclosures. But I'm, I'm not going to do more than what is absolutely required, and we'll go further than that."

Giuliani on whether he'll release his tax returns: "The right time is not now. The right time is ... when we get to financial disclosure. We'll see what is the appropriate financial disclosure. What have other people done? What are other people going to do? What is the right standard? Here's the thing we will definitely do. We'll obviously meet all of the standards that the law requires, and then we'll take a look and see should we go beyond that? Is there a reason to go beyond that? And if there is, we will. The thing I will commit myself to, obviously, is meeting all the standards, which are pretty darned high. We will meet all of those, like everybody else has, and then we'll take a look at what the right thing to do is."

Giuliani on whether he didn't make a really big mistake when he recommended that George W. Bush nominate Bernard Kerik as the chief of homeland security: "Well, look, I've, I've recommended and appointed thousands of people over the years. So I think the way you find out is my judgment generally very good and sometimes bad, like any other human being is, what kind of results have I gotten with the people that I appointed?"

My hometown paper:

Rudy Giuliani, on the hot seat Sunday for the most exhaustive grilling of his presidential campaign, doggedly insisted that death threats against then-girlfriend Judith Nathan prompted the NYPD to launch her taxpayer-funded chauffeur services.

"These were all based upon threat assessments made by the New York City Police Department ... of what was necessary to protect her life, my life, other people's lives," Giuliani told NBC's Tim Russert. "Every single thing done here was done based upon the assessment of someone else that this was necessary."

His explanation of Nathan's police car service doesn't square with Friday's Daily News exclusive report, citing multiple witnesses and a law enforcement source, that she was being protected by city taxpayers months before the affair was revealed in May 2000.

"The threats were after" their romance became known, Giuliani maintained Sunday.

The only guest on Russert's "Meet the Press," Giuliani endured a withering examination of his personal character and business dealings.

To the glee of fellow presidential contenders, the Republican front-runner spent nearly an hour playing defense, attempting to deflect a flurry of questions about his relationship with indicted pal Bernard Kerik and Kerik's mistress Judith Regan, controversial corporate clients and his own tangled personal life.

"The baggage is finally starting to catch up with him," a neutral GOP consultant said.

Giuliani said again that he did a poor job of vetting Kerik but denied he allowed personal loyalty to trump his judgment. He said he knew Regan was Kerik's publisher but wasn't aware of their Ground Zero love nest in a pad reserved for recovery workers.

He defended the activities of his security and legal businesses as "ethical, lawful, decent work," but said he won't release a list of his clients because he's promised many of them confidentiality.

Predictably, Democrats piled on. "Rudy Giuliani's refusal to be honest about his shady past is becoming a chronic habit," Democratic National Committee spokesman Dag Vega jabbed.

The usually combative candidate was uncharacteristically subdued throughout the grilling. Somberly dressed in a dark suit, white shirt and red tie, Giuliani employed many of the timeworn techniques of damage control. He turned the tables on his inquisitor - "that's a stretch," he politely complained once - and borrowed from the Watergate scandal's signature "mistakes were made" rationale.

Stealing a page from Hillary Clinton's script, he wielded a tactical laugh now and then. He blamed the media for hyping the facts, and invoked the memory of a fellow ex-mayor to explain his poor judgment about Kerik.

"As one of my predecessors, Fiorello LaGuardia, used to say, ‘I don't make many mistakes, but when I make them, they're big ones.'"

That was a reference to LaGuardia's celebrated 1941 wisecrack: "When I make a mistake, it's a beaut."
In a rare interlude from his self-defense chores, Giuliani took issue with GOP rival Mike Huckabee's 1992 remark that homosexuality is an "aberrant" lifestyle.

"I don't believe it's sinful," he said. "It's the various acts that people perform that are sinful, not the orientation that they have."

The crop of sinners, he added, includes His Honor:

"I've had my own sins that I've had to confess and had to deal with and try to overcome, and so I'm very, very empathetic with people, and that we're all imperfect human beings struggling to try to be better."